Emergency Preparedness

Its Impact on Education, Arts, and Work (Part 2)

Editor’s Note: Listen to the first episode in this series.

Podcast by Dr. Bjorn Mercer, DMA, Department Chair, Communication and World Languages and
James Lendvay, Faculty Member, School of Arts, Humanities, and Education

AI-generated content material: how unique is it? What are the authorized ramifications? How does AI establish truths? And, from whose perspective? American Public University’s Dr. Bjorn Mercer and James Lendvay focus on these questions—and extra—on as we speak’s episode. (Catch up on Part 1 here if you missed it.)

Listen to the Episode:

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Read the Transcript:

Bjorn Mercer: Hello, my identify is Dr. Bjorn Mercer, and as we speak we’re speaking to James Lendvay about AI in Education, the Arts, and the Future of Work: Part two. And so, welcome again, James.

James Lendvay: Hi, Bjorn. Thanks for having me once more. It’s at all times nice to be right here, and at all times a pleasure.

Bjorn Mercer: Yeah, positively. This is a superb dialog, as a result of AI has been a subject for a very long time, however I feel precise AI merchandise are comparatively new as of 2023, there are a flood of recent AI merchandise. So, it’s very fascinating to see what’s going on. And, so, the primary query actually, which applies to training, the humanities, and only for all of our jobs: is AI generative or is it simply mimicry?

James Lendvay: This is a superb query. Something that’s in all probability nonetheless largely debated, though I suppose it relies upon on who you ask within the area of growth. We are utilizing the language of generative, with ChatGPT, proper? But there are questions as as to if it’s simply compiling—these giant language fashions—simply compiling and sort of piecing collectively phrases primarily based on predictions, the algorithms there, or if it’s doing one thing extra like pondering, if we actually have an excellent deal with on what meaning precisely.

We might simply assume that it’s simply mimicry, I suppose, in the interim, there’s lawsuits already coming down the pike about whether or not or not it’s producing genuine concepts or simply piecing collectively a bunch of different concepts, whether or not from books or music or wherever, and to what extent that could be plagiarism and even copyright infringement. So, that’s going to be a extremely fascinating and necessary, type of, even, metaphysical, query: What is that this factor? What is it doing? How is it doing it? And then, in fact, how that applies to work, college, leisure, arts, every thing.

Bjorn Mercer: As of 2023, there have been a bunch of recent AI corporations on the market which have put out merchandise and are doing superb issues. And AI has been talked about for a very long time, in fact, however I feel that is the primary time the place we’ve actually seen it going out to most people. And it’s fascinating to think about, is it generative or mimicry? And I feel once I see a whole lot of the AI artwork that’s created, it’s simpler to see how AI is mimicking what got here earlier than it.

Obviously, there’s hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of photos that these AI applications are utilizing to then spit out new variations of artwork. You ask them to do one thing and then it spits out one thing. But you may see how they’re all somewhat related. You can see the place the affect comes from. You may even see doubtlessly fashions that they’re utilizing to then put into the artwork. So they’re not actual individuals, however they have been in some unspecified time in the future they took that picture from someplace.

And so some individuals are seeing themselves in AI artwork, and I’m not speaking about do an artwork with some movie star in there, identical to do artwork with any person in there. And that particular person did exist someplace. It actually is fascinating to think about AI as mimicry. And are you able to clarify somewhat in regards to the lawsuits, not in depth, however what’s taking place with that sort of AI mimicry and how that has created some issues with the regulation?

James Lendvay: Well, I feel you used a extremely fascinating phrase, which is new, and what does that imply? I’m seeing so many issues and individuals are so entertained by so many of those little makes use of of AI proper now, and I’ve been seeing a whole lot of issues the place they’ll take any person’s voice. The very first thing I can consider is that they took the singer from Metallica and overdubbed the sound of his voice singing phrases to a different music. And you’ll by no means know his voice was, it’s simply pure. He was born with that voice. And that’s not one thing that this system made up. It’s not a singular creation in that time period in that sense.

There’s different ones too the place any person will superimpose a face. I’ve been seeing a whole lot of this with Arnold Schwarzenegger’s face superimposed on any person’s physique, and then his voice can also be superimposed on there and individuals appear to get a giant kick out of that. At what level is that copyright situation? I don’t understand how Arnold Schwarzenegger feels about that. I used to be truly watching a extremely fascinating Senate listening to on AI on C-SPAN, and one of many witnesses mentioned, once we discuss monetary fraud, for instance, there’s some heavy penalties for that, and so a part of the dialogue in that listening to was, can we arrange legal guidelines and guidelines such that there might be sufficient punitive penalties that individuals will reel in using this?

And the purpose he made was actually fascinating, which was: if monetary fraud, if we take that so severely, why not take this different sort of fraudulent conduct as nicely, and impose comparable sanctions maybe? And then possibly that might type of direct the best way that individuals are utilizing this.

Bjorn Mercer: And these are nice examples that it makes me even assume … I’m wondering if celebrities and even individuals with extra of a public persona will attempt to trademark themselves. I imply, I feel a whole lot of celebrities copyrighted and trademarked versus completely different points, but when they only trademark themselves. So sooner or later, if these Arnold Schwarzenegger issues went out, and in the event that they’re only for enjoyable, who cares? But if then individuals are attempting to earn money off of it and not asking permission from the property of Arnold Schwarzenegger that has a trademark on him, then they might sue as a result of, yeah, it’s Arnold. We all comprehend it’s Arnold, and if any person is doubtlessly earning profits, then that’s the place a whole lot of the problems actually are available in.

And once I consider generative versus mimicry, it does appear to be it’s solely a matter of time earlier than there are particular points of AI being generative, the place it’s arising with some unique concepts. I feel that’s a positive line as a result of whilst people, even our unique concepts have typically already been created 100 occasions over by the point we get to them.

James Lendvay: Yeah, there’s all these sorts of concepts coming down the pike and we’re choosing issues out and we possibly by no means have actually fully new genuine concepts. But I additionally wished to again as much as one thing you mentioned earlier once we have been speaking about copyrighting. And one of many issues additionally from that Senate listening to I used to be watching was how this can be utilized to govern public opinion in politics. And when elections come alongside.

So, it’s one factor to imitate or to make some sort of fraudulent bit with Arnold Schwarzenegger, however what if that’s the similar issues being completed with a presidential candidate and now any person doesn’t know the distinction and you may’t inform actual from faux. The energy to affect the general public is so nice. And a whole lot of the senators who have been talking have been very involved about this, and I feel rightly so. So whether or not it’s mimicry or generative in that sense, it might not matter so far as that stuff goes, however the generative facet goes to nonetheless be necessary. But simply the mimicry facet so far as these issues go is one thing actually regarding.

Bjorn Mercer: And I agree, and to not say this already, but when we are able to take one factor from this podcast is that everyone ought to watch extra C-SPAN. And so this transitions truly subsequent to what’s the function of AI in training? Is it a instrument? Is it one thing else? I feel school and administration in training are taking a look at AI extra hesitantly, however I feel college students are totally embracing it and as an alternative of being a combative relationship, how can or not it’s a instrument?

James Lendvay: So, I simply had this week a bunch of essays are available in for certainly one of my lessons, and we are actually working all of our essays by way of this Turnitin system. The level of it’s simply to examine for plagiarism, so, it runs an essay by way of a background examine, principally, of a bunch of different lots of of 1000’s, hundreds of thousands, of comparable merchandise, I suppose, to see if there’s sufficient matching that it might be thought-about plagiarism. And, it’ll spit again a quantity, 25% match. Turnitin has now added a function the place it’s checking for AI-generated materials. There was a pupil who had a 100% match, and we have been speaking again and forth about it. I don’t need to say an excessive amount of about it, however one of many questions that’s come up, and it’s provide you with different college students as nicely is, can I take advantage of one thing like Grammarly as a instrument to assist me?

It’s not writing for me, it’s not even mimicking something. It’s simply taking what I wrote and making it higher—mechanically, and even stylistically, higher. And one of many questions was whether or not Turnitin is figuring out Grammarly’s corrections or edits as AI. Now I went in, and I used to be taking a look at a few of Turnitin’s materials. They declare “No,” that it doesn’t choose up adjustments made by applications like Grammarly, and it solely succeeds at detecting textual content that was derived from some sort of generative program. How it does that, I’m unsure. But sure, to your level, college students are choosing up on this and why not? Even if it’s not a instrument, even when it’s doing the give you the results you want, what are the moral constraints that college students have which are going to maintain them from utilizing one thing like that? Something that we are able to construct into curriculum and whilst so-called teachable moments to say, “Hey, if we’re talking about ethics, should we be using this, or should you be doing your own work?” And it’s sort of snowballed even simply during the last six months into a whole lot of questions.

Bjorn Mercer: And I feel these questions are legitimate, and they’re questions that should be had, and they should be had amongst college students and school. When I have a look at AI, I see it as a instrument. So within the perfect-case state of affairs, a pupil can be like, I’ve a paper that’s arising, and it’s say, on Nietzsche. I at all times like saying Nietzsche as a result of it’s enjoyable to say. So, you go into an AI product and you say, can I’ve a top level view? So, Nietzsche, define, hit numerous issues, and it spits out a top level view. That’s a terrific factor to have. It helps you focus your concepts. Now in case you say, Nietzsche, write a paper for me, and then you definitely take that paper and you submit it to me, that’s 100% fraud since you didn’t do it, a pc did it, however a instrument to assist arrange your ideas; a instrument to assist brainstorm. That’s fairly great.

Of course, the priority is what number of college students will attempt to take the shortcut? Now with that mentioned, what number of college students have at all times tried to take a shortcut? So, I feel it doesn’t create a brand new downside, it simply makes an outdated downside differently, if that is sensible.

James Lendvay: No, it positively does. This has at all times been a problem, in fact, dishonest of 1 type or one other, and that is only a new modality. The actual concern right here is how straightforward it’s. In seconds, a pupil can have a paper drawn up for them on their telephone with a extremely handy copy perform and simply paste it proper in, and you may write a paper that might possibly usually take you a lot hours, or maybe days, relying on who you might be, and you’re doing it in seconds. Now that sounds nice. I’ll simply rapidly insert right here. That sounds nice. But, it additionally comes at the price of actually undermining what we need to do with training right here.

Lots of people need to incorporate AI, and as you talked about earlier than, we are able to draw strains and say, “Okay, as a tool, that’s fine, but no more than that.” And, so, the place are we going to attract that line? And then, how are we going to implement it? Really robust.

Bjorn Mercer: And it actually makes me consider essential pondering. So, generally, I might say that lots of people wrestle with essential pondering. I’m not saying everybody. We every have our blind spots in direction of how we critically assume in several points of our lives. For some, it’s healthcare, for some, it’s numbers, and others, it’s moral, numerous other ways by which we are saying we wrestle with essential pondering. I fear for the scholar that can attempt to take the shortcut and I’ll say, achieve success. They get by way of college and they’re in a position to make use of AI and have these papers which are primarily written for them, and then they found out a manner find out how to make it their very own.

And then you definitely get an grownup who has completed this. What is their essential pondering? Are they actually critically fascinated by the data that they’re consuming and then spitting out? Or, are they doubtlessly simply blindly, “Okay, I have a problem, I’ll do it as fast as I can. It looks good enough. Here you go.” I imply, to me, that might actually put people at a aggressive drawback, and they may not even notice it if that is sensible.

James Lendvay: No, it does. An obstacle in quite a lot of methods. If AI goes to do what the promise has been—that it could actually assume, that IT might be even superhuman—we have now entry to a program that may enable it to do our pondering for us. What does essential pondering turn out to be? What does that imply? It’s only a time period that I’ve a instrument to try this for me.

And I used to be fascinated by this additionally by way of how we have now used instruments and how these are coming on-line for different professions and simply the web generally. I imply, a few of the instruments that we had upfront already began doing, I suppose, a few of the essential pondering for us. For instance, actual property brokers used to do a whole lot of the handbook, heavy lifting of discovering properties and tailoring search to what a consumer is on the lookout for, and now you simply kind in your parameters in Zillow, and it’s completed.

That’s good. But, do we actually need to offload an excessive amount of of that work? Because, it’s train for our minds finally, proper? What’s going to occur if we’re not utilizing these capabilities and we delegate all that work to a program? I’m unsure the place that leaves us, however that’s, I feel, an fascinating concern. Something to possibly take into consideration.

Bjorn Mercer: And, so, this leads us to our final query: Are fears well-founded that AI could exchange employees?

James Lendvay: Perhaps, however as we have been simply speaking about with a few of the technological instruments that we’ve had, like Zillow or tax prep software program or discovering lodges, and do we want journey brokers to try this? Even these apps like Duolingo that may educate you a language—okay, now does that imply, impulsively, we don’t want language instructors? Maybe, possibly not. I don’t understand how many individuals statistically have been put out of labor by that. But as we have been speaking about that, it sort of dawned on me, too, that one factor that this sort of know-how doesn’t appear to be it’s going to have the ability to exchange is essential pondering with regard to our values.

So, it could actually say, if I provide you with a set of parameters primarily based on what I would like, then spit out the proper home for me. But, it’s not going to assist with the non-public decision-making, the type of essential pondering that we have now to make use of to say, “This is where I want to go in my life and these are my values and this is how I’m going to try to get there.” Maybe a program might actually assist with that sort of factor. But I feel that the world of values and the world of numbers and information and getting from one place to a different in a procedural manner are very completely different. And the latter is one thing that, clearly, this mimicking AI can do, however once we’re speaking about getting from one place to a different in our lives and the essential pondering that we apply in that sense, I’m skeptical as to what it could actually do if that is sensible.

Bjorn Mercer: To me, there’s sure industries which are in danger for AI akin to tax prep, sure accounting, vehicles, and vans ultimately.

James Lendvay: Right. I used to be fascinated by that as nicely by way of simply mechanics. It’s been a very long time now that whenever you take your automobile into get it identified for an issue, what do they do? They plug in that ODI sensor. So, we have already got machines doing that, and we have now for a very long time. Now, does that basically eat away on the alternative and the necessity for a mechanic to make the most of essential pondering, troubleshooting? Maybe, to some extent. I suppose the distinction there may be that vehicles are so refined now that you just couldn’t actually diagnose an issue with the pc, in case you actually wished to. How time-consuming would that be? So, it’s possibly an impact of the difficult know-how itself. It’s not simply coming in and changing what mechanics usually did. It’s one thing that must be completed due to the advance of the know-how that’s a part of the job now. From a office and financial perspective, it’s very fascinating.

Bjorn Mercer: It is. It additionally makes me consider healthcare when they’re studying studies or MRIs or x-rays, in case you put it by way of, say, an AI that has a database of everybody that’s ever existed and evaluating it to all people your age, all people your ethnicity, people can’t exchange that. And, so, the pc will do the evaluation, and spit out what it thinks it sees, and then a human would then have a look at it. To me, that’s a completely great manner of mixing AI pc studying with people. And, on the similar time, even in case you begin having little robots that may go round and do the fundamentals of healthcare, of simply your preliminary screening, that’s not a nasty factor both, as a result of in healthcare, I imply, particularly after COVID, nurses are extraordinarily worn skinny, and so I don’t see a whole lot of jobs as being harmful, however as being hopefully complementary.

James Lendvay: Yeah. It was an fascinating level you made that with AI that may undergo an enormous database and say, evaluate your X-ray with others to say, okay, right here’s the analysis. It’s humorous as a result of that’s actually what people are skilled to do. You go to medical college, and you pump your mind full of those photos and all this stuff that you just’re going to ultimately use to return, pull out of your reminiscence, or synthesize in some way, and make determinations whenever you’re doing the job.

And now, AI is doing that, however how rather more info can some database maintain than the common human thoughts? And, it’s a complete lot extra. So, if it’s doing the identical factor, however with that rather more strong database, it looks as if, yeah, clearly, it’s going to do a greater job.

Bjorn Mercer: I’ve been watching some documentaries about AI and warfare the place the one factor that at present I feel is a rule the place the set off remains to be pulled by human, however ultimately, the set off might be pulled by AI. And, with healthcare or various things like that, AI will accumulate the info, make the suggestions, and in all probability many of the occasions it’ll be right, however the human nonetheless has to substantiate it.

James Lendvay: Something you mentioned actually struck me about utilizing diagnoses right here and for no matter motive, it simply popped into my head from watching the outdated Star Trek. They had these tricorders, and so, Dr. McCoy would simply wave this factor in entrance of your physique and inform you precisely what your downside was, and right here’s the drugs to take, and it was only a miraculous factor. And that was type of like a precursor, at the very least by way of the ideology of how that might work.

But then I began pondering, nicely, if that offers you a extremely good, professional opinion, and typically individuals are going to go, nicely, I nonetheless need a human’s opinion on this, regardless that I get it, okay …as a result of individuals second guess authorities on a regular basis. Well, individuals second-guess AI as an authority and say, nicely, I’d actually prefer to get some human eyes on this, or can I get a second AI opinion? I don’t know if that sort of factor would occur, however there’s additionally going to at all times be that belief stage by way of how this stuff are utilized. That’ll be fascinating to see how that performs out as nicely.

Bjorn Mercer: I might think about a time the place you do get a second AI opinion as a result of as you need a second physician’s opinion, there might be giant databases that in all probability don’t share with one another. Honestly, whenever you come to … Just pondering of medication. When we have been speaking about Turnitin and training, Turnitin is an organization that they don’t share with different corporations, so Turnitin and Grammarly are completely different, and so these two databases don’t speak to one another, so you will get completely different opinions versus what’s accessible on the net. It’s fascinating, there’s a lot that might occur, and there’s simply so many corporations which are all combating for it, which I feel is an efficient factor. I’m an ardent capitalist, there must be competitors. Now, I’m additionally a realist within the sense that there must be wholesome, logical regulation that, hopefully, protects individuals and places individuals earlier than revenue, however nicely, that doesn’t at all times occur.

James Lendvay: No, it doesn’t. Sometimes, additionally, individuals have actually good intentions, and whenever you’re coping with one thing like this, these applied sciences which you could’t predict, it’s very attainable that any person will say, “Look, I want to change the world for the better.” As an instance, maybe, Elon Musk needs to start out up this TruthGPT factor. It’s going to present us all and solely the reality in regards to the world. Okay. I’m certain he has, I imply, some good intentions there. What that’s going to appear to be or unleash? Who is aware of?

Bjorn Mercer: We’ve talked in regards to the reality earlier than. What is the reality, and from what perspective? And historical past just isn’t so clear within the sense that an occasion happens and absolutely the information are recorded, unbiased. When occasions happen, information are recorded, however you don’t know who information these information, and so, many points of every thing on this world are open to an interpretation. I imply, I might say that that simply from its premise is idealistic, which is great, however can also be flawed as a result of then the reality is the way you program it.

James Lendvay: I’m going to come back again to this once more, that Senate listening to I used to be watching, one of many witnesses was the CEO of an AI firm, the identify of which is slipping me. He stored speaking about how we’re educating the AI to do issues in a sure manner. We’re educating it to do issues in an moral manner, and the senators have been sort of … I don’t assume they actually pressed him on that query sufficient. “Training.” What does that imply? How do you “train” it to comply with sure guidelines? Is that one thing you may truly do? And it appears, certain, I imply, I don’t know any higher, possibly that’s attainable, however it looks as if a really tough and probably not consistent with the concept of simply pulling collectively giant items of data and placing them collectively in a type of puzzle. How do you get it to assume that manner and say, “Okay, I have these ethical parameters”?

Can we educate it to not spit out apparent falsehoods? Is it actually going to have the ability to try this? It might in all probability say, look, I’ve generated a real reply, what I consider to be a real reply primarily based on a database, so I’m solely going to present you this one, and if one other one comes throughout, we’re going to filter that one out. So, I’m certain the know-how might try this ultimately, however once more, the way it’s programmed, the way it’s used is absolutely going to be what determines that, I feel.

Bjorn Mercer: Well, yeah, and not desirous to spit out falsehoods is a superb concept, however then it additionally makes me assume like … I’m simply pondering of political sizzling matters of the day. If any person mentioned one thing about communism and a whole lot of what’s occurred or a whole lot of views as we speak about communism and mid-Nineteenth-century Marxism is perspective. Unless you return to the unique textual content and solely learn what they wrote versus what occurred within the subsequent corresponding 150 years after that, or your individual political leanings, I imply, what’s true, what is fake?

James Lendvay: That brings up a terrific level, as a result of even when the AI-generated content material was being broadcast, it nonetheless relies upon on the viewers’s understanding. So, if any person doesn’t know what communism is and they hear it, they’re going to filter that out nevertheless they need. They’re going to place their very own spin on it, whether or not it’s a human generated that reality or a machine. There’s nonetheless going to be that different finish the place individuals—and possibly this will get us again to essential pondering—the place individuals are nonetheless going to have to grasp what they’re listening to, whether or not it’s true or not.

Bjorn Mercer: It actually makes me take into consideration essential pondering. It all comes again to essential pondering, and not nearly once we’re speaking about: Is AI generative or mimicry? How is it utilized in training? With employees? I imply, there’s simply so many issues that go together with it, the place AI may provide you with a solution, and then you definitely’re like, “Well, what’s the context? What are the primary sources that it took from? Is it taking from primary sources that are, say, from the Middle Ages, and are those primary sources only European? Or is it truly scanning in Middle Eastern primary sources? Is it scanning in Chinese primary sources?” You have the potentiality—unintentional—of getting a Eurocentric perspective, and once more, there’s nothing improper with that, however in case you additionally assume that it’s the reality, the place are the first sources?

James Lendvay: And that’s a terrific level too, as a result of if individuals begin to see this generative know-how as an absolute authority, then there’s not going to be any questioning of it. That might be an issue as nicely. I feel that’s why lots of people are frightened about, nicely, in case you see a faked picture of Donald Trump saying one thing, you’re going to consider that he truly mentioned that. Okay, that’s one factor. But in case you simply occur to Google one thing and you discover some AI-generated content material and you don’t know that it’s AI-generated, you’re going to take it as authoritative irrespective of the place it got here from. And even in case you knew that it was generated by AI, you might say, “Well, I know that AI pulls from this huge database and library of stuff, and it filters it out in such a way, so I have a good reason to believe what it’s telling me.” We actually are in the identical place that we are actually with how we take care of and how we consider experience and how we both settle for that or reject it.

Bjorn Mercer: In my final instance, and then we’ll must wrap it up, makes me consider, say you’re writing a paper about Indian historical past, and it’s known as the Indian Rebellion of 1857, however in India, that’s sometimes known as the First War of Independence. Now, from the British perspective, they known as it the Indian Rebellion of 1857 as a result of the Indians rebelled towards us. Well, and in case you have a look at that, that’s colonialism to a T as a result of the Indians in India have been attempting to throw off the yoke of the English, and even in Wikipedia, within the English model of Wikipedia, English language—which is principally American, I might say—why is it labeled as Indian Rebellion of 1857, when it must be the First War of Independence, possibly “slash” Indian Rebellion of 1850? So, it’s perspective, even excellent right here.

James Lendvay: We’re going to get that even now. I imply, it was January sixth. Was {that a} riot? Was {that a} protest? Was it an rebellion? How that’s worded, that’s crucial to how individuals understand it, and how is AI going to decide on which phrases to make use of?

Bjorn Mercer: Which to me comes right down to who’s programming the AI, and then, which AI product are you utilizing? So nicely, a wonderful dialog. James, any remaining phrases?

James Lendvay: Well, for me, once more, that is affecting all of our lives professionally, by way of how that is affecting training. This goes to be an ongoing situation, and hopefully, we are able to discover a method to combine AI—as all people’s saying, it’s not going anyplace—in a productive and optimistic manner for college students and mitigate any situations or patterns of utilizing AI inappropriately. So, it’s going to be a concerted effort, I suppose, and should be, on all people’s half, to guarantee that we’re getting essentially the most out of those applied sciences and utilizing them ethically.

Bjorn Mercer: Excellent. Final, remaining phrases, and as we speak we’re speaking to James Lendvay about AI in training, the humanities, and the way forward for work. Of course, my identify is Dr. Bjorn Mercer, and thanks for listening.

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  • celestiaCelestia (TIA) $ 16.87 2.94%
  • lido-daoLido DAO (LDO) $ 3.00 2.14%
  • mantleMantle (MNT) $ 0.793649 9.87%
  • the-graphThe Graph (GRT) $ 0.272345 3.56%
  • crypto-com-chainCronos (CRO) $ 0.091849 1.9%
  • arbitrumArbitrum (ARB) $ 1.79 3.17%
  • moneroMonero (XMR) $ 122.00 2.15%
  • sei-networkSei (SEI) $ 0.833097 3.62%
  • suiSui (SUI) $ 1.71 1.43%